Speaker 1: 0:14

hello and welcome to let's talk procurement. The only show you need to master the art of procurement. Let's go welcome, nick.

Speaker 2: 0:23

We've, uh, we've ambushed you again yeah, I know it's several times this has happened we were saying that um well, luke one, that guy was saying that we ambushed you last time and we made incriminating, incriminriminating tapes of you and you still, you still come back for more. I know.

Speaker 1: 0:47

I know the word tapes, by the way, sounds weird, it does. It was purely audio, can we say?

Speaker 2: 0:56

Audio can still be bad.

Speaker 1: 0:59

Look, thank you listeners for joining. This is a great episode today. This is actually one that one of the listeners has inspired and we thought we'd summon in nick the nic um, and we'll get into nick in a in a short while. So, um with me, as always, is luke 10. Uh, he's got new glasses on and I've got a nickname for them. I call them the d Dharma 5000s because they look like Jeffrey Dharma specials. So there's a little insight to Luke there for you. And of course, I'm Luke One, the host with the most. And today we're joined by Nick, who is a very, very close personal friend of ours, shall we say, and he comes from a dynasty of procurement professionals.

Speaker 1: 1:44

So you, you know, it goes up it's not just his dad, it's his granddad, it's his great granddad, it's his great, great, you know, you know, yeah, and his brother and it's yeah, it's a family you don't mess with in the procurement world, to be fair, so welcome. Uh, let's just do a quick shout out to um our socials. Luke, do you want to do that as soon as that's your yeah, so our instagram nick actually do you know?

Speaker 3: 2:10

our instagram is nick I actually don't, you don't even follow us, you bastard okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 2:18

so uh, nick's gonna follow. Let's underscore talk, underscore procurement on Instagram. We also have a text us function in the description of the episode and you can email us. Our email address is 2LUKES1SIP at gmailcom. That's a number two Nick put me off there Number twoke's plural number two, luke's plural number one, cip at gmailcom. And on that email address we received an email from kareem. So kareem said great podcast, luke's Oracles of Procurement. One recommendation I have is how to approach SIP's multiple choice exams. I really appreciate an episode before my last few level four exams and then four, five, six and seven.

Speaker 1: 3:17

So can I just break that down a little bit? First of all we said last few, and then he says about five different modules.

Speaker 1: 3:22

So I think let's just say, kareem, I think you're just starting, mate, but that's alright, we appreciate the range of your time with us and also, you know, calling us the oracles I think some might take that as an offence, because oracle are like the worst company in the world to work with, but you know, we are blessed to have your message and we, uh, yeah, we're very appreciative. So thank you for getting in touch and, on a serious note, we are delivering for you today with some insights to multiple choice exams, especially for you, karim, but also for our other listeners out there going through this, uh, this rough time with SIPs at the moment, which brings us on to El Guesto.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Yes, it does indeed. And for you, Nick, we have three quickfire questions. Yeah, so we know your name, we know that you work in procurement.

Speaker 3: 4:18

The first related question is to get to know you a little bit if you could only have one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be? Oh, it would definitely be. It would definitely be a pheno pizza from nando's I. I could eat that with um, mac and cheese and perry salt chips. I know controversial, so many carbohydrates, but I could. I could literally. After I eat that, I can literally eat it again. Don't talk, don't ask me what spice I have on it, because yeah, I don't know that's spicy, but um, definitely. But I could eat that again and again. After I've eaten it, I can eat it again. It's so tasty.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Yeah, breakfast, lunch and dinner I think that's a good breakfast. That's going to set you. I mean, you're going to fall back asleep straight away, but after that it will set you up for the day nice yeah great. So next question is how many? How many penguins could you take in a fight if you got a million per penguin?

Speaker 3: 5:21

what a million? What do you mean? A million per penguin?

Speaker 2: 5:24

you. You get a million pounds for every penguin you fight, but you've got to fight them all at once what?

Speaker 3: 5:31

what uh species of penguin is it? Questioning the questioning the questioner it's got to be the biggest most aggressive penguin you can imagine right, or an emperor penguin. Okay, yeah, we'll go for emperor penguin, right? So you know, I think, I think I could easily take 100. I'm not, yeah, I'm not, I'm not the gorilla in this scenario. I could easily I'm like the gorilla to like, yeah, humans, I could easily face a hundred penguins. I reckon what would be your strategy, what would be my strategy?

Speaker 2: 6:11

Yeah, bearing in mind, it is on their territory as well.

Speaker 3: 6:13

Oh, is it on their territory? What? In snow, a bit of water, a bit of ice, a bit of snow, yeah, oh, yeah, probably about five.

Speaker 4: 6:19

Then, if it's that condition, if that's the condition, if it's on condition, if that's the condition, if it's on.

Speaker 3: 6:24

If it's on home turf, easily 100, I think, because they're going to, they're going to tire out easily, they're not going to. Yeah, yeah, easily 100. But if it's with ice, I'm breaking through that ice. I am too heavy, unfortunately.

Speaker 1: 6:42

I think what they do, though they can't punch, can they a penguin can't punch, so I guess they can't punch. Can they? A penguin can't punch, so I guess they can bite.

Speaker 2: 6:46

Surely they'll just peck you to death so Nick's just ruined any chance he has of sympathy with the listeners after beating up 100 penguins it's better than what he was beating up on the episode we didn't accomplish yeah. So next question, um last question as well what's the future of procurement?

Speaker 3: 7:10

in one word, three very related questions there future procurement in one word or one phrase one phrase, one something I can't think of a saying, but I think it's exciting and challenging at the same time. I'd say I think, in terms of the whole ai piece, it's exciting to um learn, you know, new risks that we can um have as a business and in terms of looking at suppliers that supply ai, and it's challenging at the same time about how to accept those risks and, yeah, move forward with it. So, yeah, I think exciting and challenging at the same time. I don't know what phrase you could. Uh, I'm sure there's a saying that you could have with that, but it's not coming to mind.

Speaker 1: 8:00

Exallenging. Just have to kind of merge the two together and yeah, that's it Exallenging.

Speaker 2: 8:05

I'm going to use that in my everyday vocabulary now.

Speaker 1: 8:08

So, nick, I don't know if you're aware, right, but one of the things we do with Luke 10 is we guide the listeners through his journey of the SIPs assignment route, right, and we actually unveil his results live on episodes and we kind of give some insights to it. And don't get me wrong, like every time we are both brooking it, because I'm like what do we do if he fails the next one?

Speaker 2: 8:31

will be a fail, yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:33

Yeah, do we end the episode? Do we just start? That that's the end of the podcast? Who be a fail? Yeah, yeah, do we end the episode? Do we just that? That's the end of the podcast? Who knows? But, um, obviously he's doing the assignment route and, uh, we know that you're steamrolling through the uh, I guess the exam routes.

Speaker 2: 8:47

I think so what have you? What have you done so far? Should we recap on recap on that?

Speaker 3: 8:50

yes, so what I've done. So I started off with level three. They were all multiple choice exams and now I've just finished my last level four written exam and I've done all the multiple choice ones. I did have a look, I did average out all my scores and I have averaged out 90% across all the multiple choice exams. So, yeah, I'm definitely going to support it, but yes, it's been. It's been challenging as well.

Speaker 2: 9:23

Sure, I think you're doing too much there.

Speaker 3: 9:28

I lost. That's what I've said. A lot of work has gone into it, very proud of it, but yeah, that's where I'm currently at, so just taking taking july off, as I needed a break. Um, but hopefully, yeah, maybe pick up the sips again september, november just as an aside, what made you start with level three?

Speaker 3: 9:53

um. So yeah, so it was at my um, at my old job um, so I think it was my first foray into procurement and my manager suggested that I um take on, uh, level three first, before the um, before level four. I think the requirements now for level four is that you have to have two years of experience or complete level three. So I think he was heavily suggesting to um to start on with level three.

Speaker 1: 10:23

Okay, would you advise that to someone in the same position as in relatively new?

Speaker 3: 10:31

um, it depends really. It depends because, if I, because the thing is there are five modules in level three and there's five exam blocks throughout a year. So it depends if you, it depends on your experience within procurement experience within procurement for and if you, if you want to get ahead and progress quite quickly in procurement, I'll, and if you're starting out, I'd recommend see if you can bunch a couple together and do it like that. However, if you're doing one exam at a time and you've already built up a little bit of experience, you might as wait as well as well. Wait until you can start level four. I would recommend that instead.

Speaker 3: 11:20

But it's completely dependent on the, on the person, because, as well, a lot of the content is is is expanded on in in level four anyway. So you're not, you're not really losing out, but I don't know how much you're gaining at the same time, because I think when you look at um requirements, when you um, apply for jobs, um and stuff, a lot of the places say minimum level four required or just working towards msips. So yeah, it really depends on on you as an individual.

Speaker 2: 11:54

Um, yeah, are are the level three exams the same time, number of questions and format as the level four ones?

Speaker 3: 12:05

no, completely different um in terms of uh questions. There's more questions per exam in the level three um, which is quite interesting. I think there's 10 more um as well. The style of question is um is different as well. So there are some questions in the level four exam, multiple choice, where it gives a scenario and asks a question and the question is either yes or no. However, there's four options. So there's two um explanation against the yeses, two explanations against the no's and then you have to pick the best. Well, no, or the correct reasoning.

Speaker 3: 12:51

That is absent in level three and as well um, I believe, if I'm recalling correctly. I believe um when you. The other question that's also style of question that's also absent in level three is that it asks a question and it has multiple um answers and then the options are two and three, only one or four only. I believe that is also absent in the level three exams as well. So I think there's two styles of questions that are absent and level four gives more. There's a lot more context behind the asking of a question as well.

Speaker 1: 13:35

You'll find that as you go to level five and six as well, it goes up and it goes up another level. Yeah, um, you might get I don't know if you have it in level four, but you get like a case study um for multiple, like a multiple choice scenario, and when you get a question underneath with with some options, and then you get like another couple of questions based on the same scenario, and so they start building in things like that. But I think that's a good point. So from from memory it was is it an hour and a half to do the exam for a multiple choice at level four?

Speaker 3: 14:05

yeah, I believe so, yeah, I believe so and that was very questions, right yeah, 60. Level three was actually over 70 questions and I think you get a little bit longer, wow yeah, um.

Speaker 1: 14:19

So yeah, 90 minutes. So I found at the time and I'm guessing you're going to say the same thing that I found 90 minutes was quite generous for 60 questions. Um, quite often found that I'd get through a lot of them and then come back and have enough time to go over them again, sort of thing. But just just um going over the types of types of questions, and then we'll go into sort of tips for kareem and anyone else listening, uh, who are sitting those multiple choice exams. Because you're an hour and a half, the pass mark 70 and you've got um the objective response questions, which is the whole thing. It's just normally you just pick one answer from the list. So, basically, which one's the correct answer out of these four? Um, the ones you alluded to, nick, where you've got more than one answer, potentially um. So it might be like oh, d and e are correct or a and b are correct or whatever. Um you then get matching drag and drop. So I don't know if you've had that yet.

Speaker 3: 15:12

So they've I believe that that's no longer a part of the exams anymore. So I think as well if you look at old sample papers that SIPS used to produce. It used to be that drag and drop or select from a drop down list, but you fill a word in a sentence.

Speaker 1: 15:37

That's no longer part of the exams anymore oh well, that's a shame, because that was, I would find out like the easiest one.

Speaker 1: 15:42

It'd be like eight marks but just put in like it'd be like mendelo state, like matrix, and it'd be like, yeah, what goes in the top left box and then what's the like, give an example of it. And that'd be like two marks, and I always found that quite easy. Um, I mean, you have a true or false ones, which you said as well. Um, true or false with a reasoning. So there are different types of questions, save for drag and drop. So this is why I brought you in Nick. You know proper current. So, uh, yeah, thanks for that. Um, I believe you can still do exam center sittings, but you can also do online. Um, I'm so old school that I was. I was doing them in centers for the first sort of I think level four and five, and then they were just during covid, just kind of learning about the online stuff and and I I would definitely recommend them, the multiple choice ones doing them online at home in a comfortable environment yeah, I've, I've done I've done both um and I.

Speaker 3: 16:33

I would, if you can do it at home, do it at home, because I used to go to this exam centre which I think a lot of the exam centres have now shut down. I was going to an exam centre where there would be noises and stuff outside which you can't really control. But you can control that, can't you? And I think it's just you can't hear also other people clicking or like banging their drinks bottle on this table. It's just, it's just you in that situation. So I prefer that. Some people may prefer the other way, but now I've transitioned to do in on at home, only now more, so more expensive that way.

Speaker 3: 17:16

Yes, yes, I believe so.

Speaker 1: 17:20

I believe so. Yeah, they add all these different fees in.

Speaker 2: 17:24

So we did do an episode on the fees and how much it costs. I think that was like our third or second episode or something. So younger us, more hopeful. We had dreams back then about how SIPs could be. So what would you say? So you've obviously done quite well in your so is that 94% for all of them or objective response specifically, so that 90% is just for the multiple choice exams that I quoted earlier.

Speaker 3: 18:00

The written exam I got um 62 percent, um, and I'm waiting the result on the uh second uh written one nice, nice, okay.

Speaker 2: 18:11

So what would you say has been your strategies for success? Like how have you been able to do so well in the multiple choice ones?

Speaker 3: 18:21

I think.

Speaker 3: 18:21

I think, to be honest, I had a reflection of this um before I came on and I think it's it's the knowledge of the theories.

Speaker 3: 18:31

It's really because, for example, porter's Five Forces almost comes up in every topic. Whole life asset management comes up in almost every exam. Menderlo's, like Luke said, menderlo's Matrix, the Kraldrick Matrix, all these different procurement theories on how to, whether to, how to conduct a procurement function or, you know, manage your stakeholders, or how to assess a supplier, like you've got, carter's 10 C's a lot of those come up frequently, even the Steepled Tim Woods. They come up again and again and it's using those theories across multiple exams. For example, like whole life asset management there's a whole exam dedicated to that.

Speaker 3: 19:29

But if you take whole life asset management and bring that over to supplier relationship management that managing costs throughout a whole purchase of an asset if you take that to supplier relationship management, well, you're not going to use that for a transactional supplier, right? But you may think about it when you use it for a supplier that you have a more strategic relationship with. And again, like how, how do you um also reduce the cost of the of, of that of um? Having an asset over a time period is maybe early supplier involvement, and it's just using and bringing everything together across different contexts. Um, yeah, that's how I believe I've been able to answer the question as well.

Speaker 2: 20:23

That makes sense and it sounds a little bit like the essay route in terms of you learn something in one context and you've got to work out how it applies in another context. Really, how do you do something specific in terms of note taking or revision, like mind maps or something like that? What do you do in that respect?

Speaker 3: 20:49

maps or something like that. What do you do in that respect? Um, so I'm I'm completely self-learning, so I use um procurement study buddy. Um, I use those youtube videos, although those videos are based off the um old syllabus and I believe she's only only released one based off the new syllabus. But what I do is I have my book open whilst I listen to her and just highlight bits of information and if anything that's that seems, that seems new or anything that's been missed in those videos, I also go over and highlight, highlight those and just you know, summarize, summarize the key points.

Speaker 3: 21:31

Really revising the definitions that they have on the side in the textbooks has also been a massive help, because you need to know the key terms when they come up in the exam and what the yeah and, like I said before, like the context surrounding that definition in that particular uh topic. Um. So that's what I've been I've been doing, and when I cover the cover each topic, I just go through those notes um again and again, and then I do practice exams with um daniel. Do I use daniel do on on um udemy and he goes over. You know what? Um, what's in the new syllabus and what's in the old syllabus. I use my brother's account um access Daniel Do's practice exams.

Speaker 2: 22:34

Yeah, I used to do them as well.

Speaker 3: 22:36

Yeah, my brother didn't pass many of those, but he passed all of his Level 4 exams, so they're harder. They are harder and I found out I was getting around 70% per each exam. So or I did fail the odd one, so I wouldn't get too discouraged if someone does those exams on Udemy and then fails because they are harder. But the explanations under each answer are a great help to identify what you may have missed. And as well, I believe SIPs now produce 10 sample exam questions as well per exam.

Speaker 2: 23:21

So yeah, that's kind of how I prepare for an exam um, so what does the the kind of exam day look like, do you think? In terms of what would you what, what should someone be expecting? Because I I found for me when I did level four, yeah, the hardest thing was not knowing what to expect for the first one. I think once I got the first one out of the way, I kind of relatively knew generally the setup. So what kind of? Yeah, just give us a little of a run through about what does what does exam day look like?

Speaker 3: 23:58

um, yeah, so I think I think on the actual day of the exam I don't really um go over over any topics and stuff. I do a little bit on like the odd one that I'm not sure on, but you're not really going to add anything if you try to cram it in the day of the exam. So in terms of a typical exam day and when you're taking the exam, it is after the first few ones. So I also get quite nervous in exams. The initial one, I made just what I do the initial few. I do answer them. I do my best I can, but I'm still trying to get over the nerves.

Speaker 3: 24:48

I do mark um the first five, uh, five, five or six questions to review, but when I answer a few more moving forward, I do get a bit of confidence, um, and I do settle into exam. So I wouldn't worry if, like the first few questions, you may you know you may you may not have answered to the best of your ability, because you can always go back and and um and review those. So, yeah, I do, yeah, I do struggle with nerves, but, um, once I answer them and sometimes you may you may find that an answer to a question may help you with a previous question, um, or or even the context of a question may help you with um, jogging your memory in terms of answering the previous question that you've done. So if if the first few aren't really going your way, I wouldn't be too concerned. And as well if the first few don't go your way, the pass mark is 70 percent, so you can get a few wrong yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:52

So don't over focus on you know I'm really unsure about this question and overthink yourself.

Speaker 3: 25:59

You think like, trust your gut, basically yeah, yeah, and you and trust, but trust that you know you've done the preparation. I had a sixth form teacher tell me he knew he was going to pass the exam before he went into it. He knew, like, make sure you know you've covered everything. Make sure you've in terms of and that is in terms of allocating the time to make sure you prepare yourself, to go over the topics, go over the stuff that you're not sure of, go over the definitions and make sure you properly plan, plan out your revision where, before exam day, you can go into that knowing that you've already passed. And that's the approach I take. I take. I take that approach in terms of I know almost 90% of the time when I go in, I know that I'm probably going to pass the exam.

Speaker 2: 26:54

You've done enough work for it.

Speaker 3: 26:55

Yeah, you've done enough work, You've put in the effort, and I take that principle to many things in terms of you know you've done the work for it, you can trust yourself nice.

Speaker 2: 27:10

No, I like that. That's a good, that's a good approach to having something I should, should definitely do for my uh, my final, my final assignment. We'll see if that happens in practice. Yeah, so so, um, yeah, I guess the last kind of thing that I wanted to talk about was yeah, I guess the last kind of thing that I wanted to talk about was you've spoken about how you've done level three and level four. What are your plans for? Are you going to do the next levels? Are you going to stay where you are? You're going to do assignment route. What are you, what are you thinking?

Speaker 3: 27:41

yeah, so I think I think I'm just, I am just focused on relaxing. Nice, so I've done what it's. Level five is five exams. Level four is eight. So I've done 13 exams without a break. So it is getting to the point where, mentally, when I'm revising, I just wasn't 100% there. I was still there. So I've got pretty good marks. But even in my last SA1, I was like I just want a bit more time for myself. It is difficult, sips, juggling your work life, your day-to-day life and adding the exams on. So I'm just focusing on relaxing at the moment.

Speaker 3: 28:33

I think, like I said earlier, I might pick up level five in the um late later in the year. But the thing is like I know I I am good at, um, these kind of exams. I am not particularly good at the written stuff, unfortunately, so I might just stick it out with the exam route. I will probably look at the assignment route as well and see, you know, like that 10 000 word essay you talked to me about scares, scares, scares the crap out of me. Um, I'm just not, unfortunately, I'm not. I am good. I am good with my words. However, it's not my uh, it's not my strongest point.

Speaker 3: 29:15

So, um, yeah, I'll see how I get on really no for sure.

Speaker 2: 29:19

I think that's a good approach to having it. You've got to play to your strengths ultimately, and it sounds like that's what you're doing yeah nice. Was there any sort of uh, summary points or final, final things you wanted to say?

Speaker 3: 29:33

um, I think, ultimately, I think ultimately, when you approach an exam, whatever it is multiple choice assignment route you got to do what's best for you at the end of the day, although I've given advice, and I'm sure you guys will as well, you can't. Yeah, it's up to the individual at the end of the day. Like I do self-learning, that might not suit someone. Um, you do the assignment route. It doesn't suit me. I think just do do what suits you and prepare yourself well, and that's all I would say.

Speaker 2: 30:13

Nice, you should get that on your T-shirt. Brilliant. Well, yeah, thanks for being a great guest.

Speaker 4: 30:32

Hello listeners. It's your favorite let's Talk Procurement member Sound Guy here, aka the Big Dosser. Unfortunately, the outro for this episode has been misplaced. This is probably Luke 10's fault, let's be honest. So I am here to pick up the pieces of this so-called professional operation, as usual. Thank you all for listening to today's episode. We hope you found it useful in your procurement journeys and we hope it gave you a smile. Please feel free to drop us a cheeky five-star review on the platform you are listening to us on, and please can you all ask the two Lukes to let me out of the editing dungeon. It's been two years. Please help me. Bye.