Speaker 1: 0:14

Hello and welcome to let's Talk Procurement, the only show you need to master the art of procurement. Let's go to master the art of procurement, let's go. Today I bring in the studio a man who has had a fresh trim. I'm proud of you, by the way, just want to put that out there as the first thing I say. Normally you talk about my trim and I've felt bad to compliment your trim because it's been so bad. But since you've, uh, since you've got some stuff cut off there, do you, do you feel lighter? It's, it's mr luke, one.

Speaker 2: 0:47

He's here hello, yeah, thank you. Um, good to good to see you again. I know it's been, uh, been a minute literally. Uh, yeah, had a haircut pretty pretty good actually it's. I think I know why you brought this up, actually, because when, when I saw my wife for the first time after coming out with the barber, she said Luke, what have you done? I was like, what do you mean? What have I done? She said you look exactly like Luke 10.

Speaker 2: 1:18

I'm not sure if it was a compliment or an insult, but that's exactly her first words when she saw it.

Speaker 1: 1:26

She was pretty excited, wasn't she? I've heard I've heard she's like this is the best you've looked in years yeah, now she's uh pregnant, so purely based on you looking like me now.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Now she's pregnant outrageous, no, lovely. I mean today, today's a good day, because obviously I'm seeing you today. Um, mr luke one, I don't know how long, how long we've got you for, left until, uh, until we start season three. Obviously I am not the host, but I am luke 10. I'm not the host for the most, I'm the co-host with the least out of us two.

Speaker 1: 2:04

I think I know that doesn't rhyme, but uh yeah, I mean, my tangent point was going to say that obviously you are. You are bearing child, aren't you? You're partially responsible for uh, yes, for carrying a child. So do you think we, we transition? You know, when I started Sips, it was a big milestone, so we went to season two. When you have a child, is that as as big a milestone and therefore deserving for us to move to season three?

Speaker 2: 2:37

well, I don't know if it's as big, but it's um. Obviously I will have commitments. I'll be, I'll be uh procuring nappies and uh what do you call it? Having a bit of a duck up with sleep because I won't be able to procure any of that stuff. So it does feel like a good time for a little bit of a pause, but I think we've got a few bits in the bank so we can keep the listeners happy. And then maybe the line between season 2 and season 1 will be fatherhood. So episode one of season three could be about procuring stuff for a baby and how I've uh failed really badly at it so far, because it's very expensive you've got on.

Speaker 1: 3:16

Yeah, no, I like that, and I mean I. I still want you to remain the gracious and humble and loving man that you are today. Oh, thank you, I think you'll be a great dad to your son. I'm calling it now your son, luke, wow. Or your daughter Luke LJ LJ yeah, we did say that in a previous ep. Or your daughter lj lj yeah, we did say that in a previous ep. Um, just like you've been a loving and caring, uh, mentor for all of our all of our listeners on the pod, and if you want to reach out with messages of support to to luke one, then, uh, we do have an email address. The email address is two luke's, one sip at gmailcom. That's the number two luke's plural, the number one cip, at gmailcom. By the way, on that, do we have to then change the email to two luke's, one sip, one child? That's only if they're going to appear on the pod right, which I imagine you know. Give them like a couple months oh yeah, I.

Speaker 2: 4:27

I totally expect their first word to be ltp yeah or uh, or duck up or janet block or janet, yeah, you know, something pod related, and uh, I'm also hoping that it becomes a good sleep song for them yeah, yeah, I don't see why not no choice but to listen to the pod and boost our numbers up, basically yeah, they say you should play.

Speaker 1: 4:57

Is this a thing? Is this a real thing? They say you should play music to a baby while it's before it's born well while it's in the oven.

Speaker 2: 5:07

Yeah, they do say that you can read to it. Like they get familiar with certain noises and stuff like that. So yeah, that's, that's impressed. I'm also kind of touched. Actually, it's the nicest things you've ever said and for some reason you brought a little bit of energy to the podcast.

Speaker 1: 5:21

So um well, yeah, I'm just getting all the energy out in one go.

Speaker 2: 5:26

I think that's what it is do you have any other messages for the listeners?

Speaker 1: 5:31

yes, you can slide into our dms as well on instagram. We have instagram that is, let's underscore talk, underscore procurement, and also we have a fan mail page. So if you really love us that much and you want to tell us that you think our egos aren't big enough, then you can drop us a text. The option to do that is a link in the description which, I believe, says drop us a text.

Speaker 2: 5:58

Maybe text us something like that, yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:01

Yeah, I worked out the other day that we can change that to say anything. By the way, I didn't know that. Yeah, we say like, slide into our dms or something. Yeah, let's make it. By the time this goes out, it will say it will say slide into our dms, we'll see, we'll come up with something so should we, uh, should we dive into today's, today's topic?

Speaker 2: 6:21

yeah, which I don't actually know what it is so I've, I've been doing a bit of extracurricular procurement, 101ing right. So you know me, love a bit of career growth, want to be the main man in a in an organization one day, thinking you'd do the same. And uh, I was looking at the SIPs kind of material, sips website, what's out there, and uh, they put forward, basically SIPs kind of material, sips website, what's out there. And they put forward basically SIPs have put forward a case study, or not a case study, a series of kind of worked points that cover why you and I and all the listeners should not be a procurement person. You and I and all the listeners should not be a procurement person, ooh, but why we should be a business person instead.

Speaker 2: 7:14

Okay, deliberately long pause there, because I am not telling everyone that Sips has told us all just to sack off procurement and go and look for another career, but why we should all be business people as opposed to procurement people. So it's only a small article but I think it gives a lot of food for thought in maybe what I've seen business people criticise procurement of being guilty of before, so maybe being too much of a procurement person and less of a business person. So we're going to argue the case, as sips have, as to why we should be business people and not procurement people. But first bit, at a high level, I'm just going to read them building their case and then we'll we'll dialogue into it. Procurement professionals play an important part in every business, big and small.

Speaker 1: 8:07

Agree, yeah. If there's third-party spend, then yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:17

The role should not be carried out in isolation, however. Every purchasing decision must align with the company's culture, goals and objectives. By becoming more business savvy and having a business first mindset, procurement professionals can contribute strategically to an organization's success. Knowledge is power and there's much value in developing strong business acumen. By building the skills below, you can make better, more effective decisions, contribute to and better influence wider conversations with a broader perspective and learn to spot and deal with potential corruption. Yeah, I I'm slightly confused where the corruption angle kind of came into this, because but it's like you know, you're trying to improve yourself and become a better business person to achieve your goals and then bang, also spot corruption I guess, I guess they just, they're just covering it all off, right, they're going.

Speaker 1: 9:10

How many buzzwords can we throw into, uh, into this maybe?

Speaker 2: 9:15

well, question marks I think if you want to be a strategic procurement professional, then you need to know your buzzwords. You do, indeed, and I did hear that you had a masterclass from somebody else that you know in procurement around strategy, so maybe that can can help contribute to this session yeah, although yeah um, I've got, I would say I've got, uh, two people who are quite similar in in their impact on me and you hate, you hate them.

Speaker 1: 9:51

I don't know if they hate you. Um, I'm I'm trying to keep it nondescript, even though I don't think that they listen to us, but there is a war, just for the listeners information. I think there is a a raging war between, a raging war for power between you and this other person.

Speaker 2: 10:11

Yeah, I wouldn't say I hate them, I think I've just it's a bit like Strongly dislike. You know, like a grizzly bear has their territory and then another male grizzly walks into their territory. Like I saw you as a little cub and I can deal with that and I kind of see my managers as the poachers with shotguns so I don't really want to tread on their toes. But another grizzly has just entered, slightly younger grizzly, slightly similar looking um, and this grizzly loves to um, massage the poachers and kiss the poachers and do anything he can to please the poachers. Hence why I'm getting a bit jealous that luke tenn spending a lot more time with him than me.

Speaker 1: 10:50

So anyway, that's a real tangent and probably definitely just exposed it 100, but I think that's fine. I don't think they listen, so I think I think you're good.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Well, the problem is other people we don't listen.

Speaker 1: 11:01

Well, the problem is other people we don't listen yeah, yeah, well, maybe they agree with you that might that might trigger them to come out in support of of you and help you defend your territory the thing is I wouldn't even say it's opinions, it's just fact, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 11:18

this grizzly is just spitting facts what's the what's the phrase?

Speaker 1: 11:24

if you see me in the forest fighting with a grizzly bear, help the bear yeah, except I am the bear if you see me as a grizzly bear in a, in a forest, if the forest is, uh, the office giving, uh, giving passive, aggressive looks to another grizzly bear, then in the car park, in the office car park, then help one of us.

Speaker 2: 11:53

Whoever you like most, is that the phrase yeah, this is a bit like um, procurement says no, when we started beef with them and then we ended up best mates and, uh, having a private, private WhatsApp group where we just catch up and chat crap all the time. So you know, it's one of those, I think, and we'll probably, he'll probably be a godfather to my child or something at some point. So, listen, that's kind of setting the scene for it, right? So I kind of agree with what they're saying. Procurement are often isolated but shouldn't be, and I think to be a better strategic enabler. You need the, you need to help. Basically just develop your own business acumen I think it's quite.

Speaker 1: 12:34

I know I know you just use the analogy of uh, of animals and poachers, but is it? Could you kind of draw another one of those analogies, maybe, uh, maybe, like the business is the, uh is the deer and we're the poachers. And you've got to understand how the deers think to be a poacher, even though it feels a lot of the time like we are the deers and everyone else is the poachers. But you see what?

Speaker 1: 13:04

do you see what angle I'm going with in terms of you have to think I do about how I just think yes, but I disagree that the deer would be our stakeholders we're, we are the deer, oh okay, no, I see we're the deer and we're trying to avoid the poachers no, we are so don't, so, don't, uh, so be in isolation. That's, that's your summary, point, right?

Speaker 2: 13:29

I think, uh, what I was going with your analogy is, as a business, we have an armory of guns. Sales are holding one of the guns and we're holding a gun facing the other way, so we're kind of covering the backs while the sails are shooting forward. Do you see what I mean? So we need to work with the other, the other hunters, to make sure we get all of our dinner we're like a.

Speaker 1: 13:55

The organization is like an sas team moving through some sort of enemy territory. Yes're, yeah, we've got the six, as they like to say. Yeah, because of those many SAS teams that I've been part of.

Speaker 2: 14:10

But what we don't want to do is spend all our time just looking up the rear, and we need to. Basically, that sounds so bad. We need to. We need to broaden our horizon and understand what it looks like, to look up the front and around the sides as well looking the side yeah, that's it. That makes sense that does make sense so the first kind of way to achieve business acumen is to evaluate and tune your communication skills yeah, as in doing a podcast doing a podcast should should help communication skills, but I don't know if it does, I think.

Speaker 2: 14:57

I think what's really interesting is we're less buying like repeat purchases and stuff like that, and there's a lot more of a strategic element to kind of the relationships with suppliers and also the stakeholders.

Speaker 2: 15:07

So being able to talk with a technical person, so somebody who sits in a basement all day building Lego houses, that how do you take what they're saying and turn that into a valid specification, but also in a way that it justifies the purchase financially and everything else.

Speaker 2: 15:26

So how do you know what you're getting? How do you take all of the different requirements and generally have a conversation back with them? Right, because somebody who builds lego for fun or for a living, when you're talking to them about buying lego and you're trying to buy lego on their behalf, they're going to respect you a lot more. If you know about the product itself and if you can give details and you can, you know they're going to be pissed off if you come back and say, oh well, I can get, I can get knockoff lego from china, you know and I can make a saving but if you actually say, well, these are exactly the same size, shape, so they'll blend in with your existing bricks, but you can get twice as much brick per pound, all of a sudden, their little, their little geeks are getting hardened right.

Speaker 2: 16:07

So it's all about that balance of understanding and communication with the different people yeah, yeah, and it's.

Speaker 1: 16:16

It's what what you've got to remember is these people it's their day-to-day thing that, yeah, they're becoming a subject matter expert on usually. So when you're coming in, you have to kind of understand from yeah, you have to respect their that they've got the technical ability and we are sort of coming in to help them with something, rather than we're coming in to help them with something, rather than coming in and taking over.

Speaker 2: 16:45

Yeah, and that's that's interesting, right, because it's. The more you understand about other people's goals and and ambitions and what they're there to do, the better it, the better time you'll have in trying to actually work with them. It's just being appreciative of their point of view. Like you said, put yourself in the bear's shoes for you before you shoot it down have you uh heard of the phrase listening?

Speaker 1: 17:12

well, the concept, I suppose it, is of listening to listen rather than listening to respond. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 17:22

I have actually, uh, and I strongly agree with it there's a lot of people that just take in the noise and already have a point in mind that they want to make in response, or they don't really soak in or pay attention to what's actually being said. And you can get a lot from reading people, from understanding their cues and things like that. And that's kind of what I like doing the podcast, because it's you and I having a conversation and if and I'm sure you can probably tell in some of the episodes where one of us isn't listening properly to the other one, the content slips a bit. But actually when you're having a true conversation you get that engagement and and that's when you hopefully get get value from LTP.

Speaker 1: 18:06

Yeah, yeah. So what I was trying to say was no, I'm not going to uh, I was going to try and come up with a joke, with a joke about not listening to what you were saying, but maybe that's proof that I wasn't. Uh, I wasn't listening, I was just thinking about my joke the whole time, which I didn't even say, see, and then you just derailed the whole time, which I didn't even say, see, and then you just derailed the whole flow of it yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:27

So that is a good example, that's a good case study of what not to do well, I got a feeling you might.

Speaker 2: 18:34

You might want to tell me about the second point, seeing as I sent you a link and I think this is one of your I say strong points, one of your points, I think.

Speaker 1: 18:47

I think you bring this to the table it's like I've uh, like I've I've bought a cake to the table. It's not very good cake, but it is a is a cake I've bought to the table, yeah. So the second point on there is learn the art of storytelling, so the ability to translate technical information into words that are less complex and easier to digest. So ensuring a message is clearly understood, effectively communicates an organization's values and goals and resonates with the audience.

Speaker 1: 19:27

I see this I mean maybe I've jumped the gun and this is down somewhere else but I see this as a salesy skill, as in you've got to sort of. Although we are talking to sales people who are trying to sell us stuff, occasionally we have to sell things back to suppliers, back to internal stakeholders. Things back to suppliers, back to internal stakeholders, like, for example, the need to go through a proper procurement process and select a supplier based on X, y, z, rather than just going to the supplier. We've always done it's that sort of negotiation, I suppose you could call it, but you have to have sort of it's sort of a sales pitch, I suppose, as to why that's the best route yeah, I think you've got two ways of doing that right.

Speaker 2: 20:12

So, using that as an example, all right, you're. You're saying you're my stakeholder and you've been working on buying bruce bruce, can I be Bruce?

Speaker 1: 20:22

Bruce, can I be Australian?

Speaker 2: 20:23

That sounds very typical, but if you would, like Hold on, wait, wait, I'll go. I'm Bruce from South Africa. Hi, bruce. So look, I'm your procurement manager and I know you've been buying Kiwis in bulk for hundreds of years yeah, for hundreds of years. And now I am telling you that we're going to go to market for our kiwi supplier. Okay, how do you feel about that?

Speaker 1: 21:02

what the freak man. I can't believe you're doing that to me um. So I think, what you mean is yeah, that was unreal.

Speaker 2: 21:13

Um, you're quite defensive, bruce, because I've just told you that I'm coming in and I'm potentially going to take away the kiwis that you valued in your recipe for years. Yeah, and I've. I've basically just said I'm wading in. My job is to go and make a saving or change supplier, so I'm going to go and do the research. Bruce, you're not very happy with that, are you?

Speaker 1: 21:36

I'm absolutely fuming mad. Oh, that went, that went at the end, that went a small period of time well, bruce, let's try again.

Speaker 2: 21:46

Okay, bruce, I've noticed we've been buying Kiwis from Kiwi Limited for a long time.

Speaker 2: 21:54

Yeah, you got a problem bro, I don't have a problem. I think I've got a bit of a dream. Walk with me for a second. Okay, I will do so. I don't know if you've noticed. But the Kiwis we Walk with me for a second? Okay, I will do so. I don't know if you've noticed, but the Kiwis we're buying from Spain. They just don't seem to have the same taste anymore, and some of our customers have noticed that on their feedback. Now I'm not sure if that's from the supplier or if that's just a general trend with Kiwis in general. And I've also noticed that our contract is due for renewal with Kiwi Limited. So I think it's time to do a bit of market exercise where we can get you tasting some new Kiwis, brucey boy.

Speaker 1: 22:35

I would absolutely love that. No, it's gone. It's completely gone, it's completely gone.

Speaker 2: 22:39

No, that was good, that was good.

Speaker 1: 22:41

That was good.

Speaker 2: 22:42

It's coming through better than you think.

Speaker 1: 22:46

That shows you've sold that to me as bruce and I'm not even a real person. Yeah, you've made me want to follow your, follow your advice, and now I trust you to to, because you you've got my interests at heart. You've not only just told me about how we can follow your own process, but you've also told me why it benefits me as well. Yeah, I think it's important it's not.

Speaker 2: 23:15

It's almost like spinning it, so it's not actually my process. I'm doing it for your benefit, as opposed to bruce shut up. I'm buying some kiwis from somewhere else. Do you know what I mean? Which, to be honest, as daft as that sounds, a lot of people try and do it that way. Um, pulling, pulling rank. So yeah, bruce how happy are you overall then? Would you? Would you be happy going to a tender for kiwis?

Speaker 1: 23:45

I don't know if I've got it. I think it's gone. Gone now? Yeah, I'd be happy. This is Bruce. 10 years later, he's moved to England.

Speaker 2: 23:55

He's moved to Luton for a better life. Okay, so the next one, interestingly, is be more than just a name, more than just Bruce, more than just bruce. To be more than just bruce, yeah, I think, interestingly, the first point is probably just making sure you are a name, um, and not just a procurement person who gets brought in when a requisition needs approving or something's gone tits up and they need help. But I think for me, part a is actually people knowing who you are in the first point of call. But then to divert your business acumen, yes, be more than just Luke 10. Be Luke 10 who understands that his spend area is trying to become the number one lowest priced supplier or provider in the market, or know that your sector is trying to become the most environmentally friendly of all the competition out there. Develop trust, pay interest into what your stakeholders are doing. And just, oh, has Luke One got a kid? Yeah, luke Junior. So next time you see me, how's Luke Junior?

Speaker 1: 25:10

Jr how's.

Speaker 2: 25:10

LJ and all of a sudden that bond starts to form. So I think with that, you kind of do that both internally and externally, and then people think of you first. So it might be frustrating. Someone might say, oh, I've got a query about fair parties. What do I know about fair parties? Oh, luke, query about third parties. What do I know about third? But oh, lieutenant, no, lieutenant, no, he's always helpful and friendly when they want to come to you. You know, and it might be, you know you might be busy and you might think, oh, not a fan of that, but just do it.

Speaker 1: 25:41

Keep your name out there and your personality yeah, yeah, that that to me feels like something that is easy for SIPs to say, easy for senior managers to say just go and do stakeholder engagement or stakeholder management or whatever you want to say. But in practice, when you've got a stakeholder that has worked with procurement not necessarily you or even your company, but other procurement teams and other companies over the last 30, 40 years of their career they've never had a positive, positive experience. They don't want to build the relationship with you, right?

Speaker 2: 26:25

well, it's interesting, right, because if you're I've got, I've got a very, very real dilemma like that at the moment and I've actually got at first I thought, oh well, you can win anyone around. If you want to be a great procurement person, then you have to do these things and you have to win them around, and everybody has to be on side. Working is instead of forming that close relationship with that individual I've got close relationships with his left hand, his right hand and his and his executive assistant and even though he doesn't necessarily want to engage directly, I know that I can. I can get the right messages put in front of him from a procurement perspective by having positive feedback coming from his leadership team. So it's a bit more of a long game, but you can see it paying off slowly, slowly and surely.

Speaker 2: 27:17

So, yeah, I, it's not for everyone, but that's why we're talking about becoming a business person to help you succeed in your career, right? So if you, as an individual, want to go places, you need to let, you need to learn those skills in stakeholder management and being more than just league 10 or league one or whatever, and being seen as that person. And yeah, that's what I think, that's what separates. Like you said, it's easy for management to say and it you think that that's one way to um oh well, I suppose to to be more than just a name.

Speaker 1: 28:00

This is what I was thinking to be more than just a name you. One of the ways is to provide results. Right. How important is that for you know, you could come in your first sourcing activity. You can go right, we'll do xyz. Something really positive happens. You get a saving, you negotiate a good deal with supply with a difficult supplier, you solve one of their issues that they've been having for ages and then all of a sudden, they're like, oh yeah, this guy's pretty good this guy knows what he's doing.

Speaker 2: 28:29

Yeah, what mean what's really interesting in that is that. So, for example, I secured earlier this year a saving that I thought was quite a nice number, right, so £160,000, right, I mean, I'll take that saving into my bank tomorrow and I was pretty proud of it, right. And the business were like, yeah, okay, pretty proud of it, right. And uh, the business were like, yeah, okay, thank you, yeah, that's great news. Um, however, what they valued more was a completely different contract where I was able to terminate for convenience but in a way, but didn't upset the relationship, and that got more positive kind of kudos and recognition from stakeholders.

Speaker 2: 29:12

And, don't get me wrong, my manager said 160k. We take that all day, every day. When's the next one coming in? But the actual business, when they had an issue with that supplier and wanted to leave on equitable terms, not have it escalating up various kind of nasty avenues, and I managed to do that, that has actually succeeded a lot more. And it's kind of weird because when that came on my desk, I was kind of thinking, oh, this is a bit of crap, like I don't really want to be doing this.

Speaker 1: 29:40

I'd rather be focusing on my goals yeah, yeah, and that links back to the point about understanding what it is that's important for the stakeholders. Right, put yourself in their shoes, in their brogues.

Speaker 2: 29:57

Always brogues, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 29:59

Always brogues Brown, brown brogues.

Speaker 2: 30:04

Brogues before hoes, as they say.

Speaker 1: 30:07

Brogues before hoes.

Speaker 2: 30:09

So stupid, thank you. The next one's around negotiation. I think it's intertwined to also understanding your company. To negotiate well, you have to understand yourself, your departments, your company and what you're about basically. Are you warming up your vocals for a different? No, I was just uh, I was just coughing with regards to negotiations, how does mastering negotiation from your perspective help you become a better business person? So not procurement person, a business person.

Speaker 1: 30:54

How does? Sorry? May you repeat the question?

Speaker 2: 30:58

How does becoming a master of negotiation help you, lieutenant, become a better business person, not a procurement person.

Speaker 1: 31:20

That's a good question. Let's clarify when you say business person, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 2: 31:30

So obviously the whole goal of this episode is how you can become more of a strategic, influential procurement professional by being less of a procurement person and more of a business person. So ie not just focusing solely on yourself as a procurement professional and your goals, but working in a wider capacity within the organization, understanding what's going on in the other sections you know better, integrated with other departments and all that good stuff. So how would how would negotiation help you integrate with other departments or just improving your role in general?

Speaker 1: 32:03

really, so there's going to be times where you're going to have to negotiate with people on things that you don't really or things that probably aren't in your job what's called job specification. I suppose if you think about typical procurement job specification, you've got savings, compliance governance, that sort of stuff, compliance governance, that sort of stuff Whereas there might be some other things from a business perspective that you have to do to make I don't know what the right phrase is, but bring about benefits to the business, like, for example, changing payment terms with a supplier. So that might not necessarily be a strategic objective for you as a procurement person. That would be to kind of balance budgets and making sure that a sector or a business unit doesn't finish the year in debt. But if your finance contact comes to you and says, look is, is there anything you can do with the third parties, because otherwise we're going to finish the year in debt and it's going to look bad on our financial statement or whatever, if you can then negotiate with a supplier and say, look, let's defer this payment until January or until after the tax year ends, in April or whenever your business year is, then that's something business related, not necessarily procurement related.

Speaker 1: 33:38

I like that that could be good. Is that where you're going with it? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 33:43

I think if you were just focused on your procurement goals and your procurement negotiations, you'd be negotiating with third parties all the time. But even like the kind of role play we did earlier with um, with bruce, you're having that negotiation, that slight twist of things or reframing of things to make sure you've got stakeholders on board. So, even with your own goals, you can't run a tender without having appropriate stakeholders brought into it. Well, you can't, but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll just agree with.

Speaker 2: 34:11

I was about to say that you could, but the quality of it might be respected exactly, yeah, so you, I think it's a wise man once said that every conversation is a negotiation I disagree and I want to negotiate with you, to say that half of conversations and negotiations I'm not going there, right yes, does that mean I won the negotiation then?

Speaker 2: 34:50

Does that mean I won the negotiation then? Yes, so side note to the listeners right, sometimes you don't really don't have to entertain idiots who try and negotiate with you because you hold all the leverage. So just bear that in mind.

Speaker 1: 35:03

Don't waste your time.

Speaker 2: 35:03

I'm excited about that Right there, you don't see a man arguing with an ape in a zoo, do you? What did you say? I said you don't see a man arguing with an ape in a zoo, do you? What did you say? I said you don't see a man arguing with an ape in a zoo.

Speaker 1: 35:16

Oh God, I need to get my hearing checked out. I did not hear what you said, so no, it's fine, Try active listening.

Speaker 2: 35:25

A white man who said that, oh dear, and then the other two, I think, for business people is understanding what is going on in the world. And I'm not talking BBC News or CNN For you American folk out there. Cnn, yeah, all inclusive. Over here, cheeky reference. Yeah, people on top of your market and your industry trends. So, as you will know, because I'm sure you've listened to the uh top, top five trends for 2025 in procurement episode, lieutenant doesn't know what that is because he wasn't involved.

Speaker 1: 36:03

He was I refused to listen to that one because it didn't have me in it. You pissed off to the bahamas, mate what do you expect? Not quite, but yeah, I think it was a turkey, but yeah, same thing, yeah so you got the trim from and uh, and it's still looking fresh.

Speaker 2: 36:22

You have to understand what's going on, right. So some of the biggest things just sustainability or es, environmental governance, everything that's coming in with that, new procurement legislations, tech innovation, artificial intelligence, agentic AI, all of these buzzwords and even just reeling off those buzzwords, you think, oh, that's strategic, and what you can bet your bottom dollar is going to happen is at some point in your supply chain career, somebody will come up to you and say do you know which of your suppliers are using AI? The answer might be yes, the answer might be no. However, you're either going to say, yes, I can look into that for you. I already know the answer. Here's the answer.

Speaker 2: 37:09

Or you can say, say, are you referring to agentic ai or any other type of ai, and go into a deep technical conversation to get a real understanding of what it is. So one of those three options makes you sound a lot more smarter, a lot more on the ball. I think that's again being able to engage with your wider business and understanding what is actually the trends, because if someone's concerned about ai, it's probably going to be, uh, an element of generative learning, where it's just literally harvesting your information and building kind of responses on that super useful. But also you've got to be careful what, what is actually harvesting right?

Speaker 1: 37:49

Yeah, and if you don't know those sort of things, you might. Let's say, in that example you go to the supplier or someone says which of your suppliers are using AI? You go to the supplier and they say do you mean automatic AI or manual AI, or transmission AI? And then you have to go back to your business and say, oh, which one did you mean? And then you basically just become a messenger in the middle.

Speaker 2: 38:19

Right, the business could have just gone and asked the suppliers themselves yeah, and then you've just become a procurement middle person as opposed to a actual value adding on top of your game, big money man. So, having thought about that and digesting the kind of points that the Sips article looks at, and we'll maybe put a link to the article in, maybe it depends on us remembering and I'm going off on leave, so the chances are very slim that it's going to be added. Okay, if you add it, by the way, I will give you a prize Lollipop. I'll let you name the baby.

Speaker 1: 39:07

Damn Okay, I've already named it, haven't I lj?

Speaker 2: 39:13

it's not really a prize, is it, I suppose? Um, yeah, having digested all of that, I mean, do you, do you agree with the article in general and kind of its synopsis?

Speaker 1: 39:22

so do you think yeah I do, yeah, yeah and I. I think there's two reasons to that, um, and I'm actually going to compare it to something that you love me comparing things to it's refereeing.

Speaker 2: 39:38

Oh, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:40

So I always say and I seem to bring this up a bit that procurement is like refereeing in the workplace, right? So some of you know that I have refereed more than two games in my entire life and what? What you get a lot of the time is people or footballers, managers, spectators. They will say, oh, have you ever played the game before ref? Because what I think a lot of people value is someone who understands their perspective.

Speaker 1: 40:18

And the referees who have played football to a decent level and it's sort of I don't know how to explain it, but it's it's sort of like I don't know how to explain it, but it's sort of like they can maybe have a bit of a better feel for what the players are going through.

Speaker 1: 40:37

Right, because they've probably gone through similar situations themselves. If you transfer that to a procurement, setting people who understand and actually think about what the business are going through doesn't mean to say you have worked in that exact team, but at least you're trying to consider their perspective they're going to be more valued by the stakeholders, right, because not only have we got governance procedures to go through we've got to hit different things, um, in our own job but also the stakeholders themselves have their own targets that they need to hit and adhere to, and if you understand that perspective, then you're going to be you're going to be more helpful to them and then, therefore, they're going to to involve you more. Engage you, which leads to making your job easier. If you get earlier sight of things and you can have input earlier on, that's going to make it easier from your perspective as well.

Speaker 2: 41:43

Wise words, wise words, and I think if you think about your last and listeners do the same if you think about the last year or two in your current role or previous roles, whatever it is, how many people within your company have approached you and said I'd love to learn more about what it is that you are doing within your role and your function? Within your role and your function, I bet you bottom dollar. It's less than the amount of fingers you have, unless you're a weirdo and have like 100 fingers, but wait don't you mean more than, unless you're a weirdo and have less fingers yes, I do yes.

Speaker 2: 42:27

100 finger thread, you're fine. If you're a no finger, less fingers yes, I do yes. 100 finger Fred, you're fine. If you're a no finger Ringer, I don't even have an N in the ref. No finger Felix, felix. Yeah, if you're a no finger Felix, then sod's law. But I reckon maybe one or two people at best over the last couple of years have paid an interest into what you, you do and what your objectives are. What do you reckon?

Speaker 1: 42:56

yeah, yeah, does it count if you, uh, if you like, just just showed it to them, you just got your phone, like put it in their face, like here are my objectives, look at them, does that?

Speaker 2: 43:10

count. I think there's an extent to where getting something out and showing it to the world um doesn't necessarily mean the world wants to soak it in. So you, what I'm saying is how many people actively try and understand what you are doing as a procurement person other than other people in your team? And the number is very low. I would suggest. And the reason I'm asking it that way around is it's not that people don't care about procurement, it's just that most people are so centred around their own goals, their own position and what they need to do around their own goals, their own position and what they need to do.

Speaker 1: 43:51

Do you think that if you, if you think about those rare occasions where someone has tried to understand your processes and your objectives, it's in order to benefit them as well, or their project?

Speaker 2: 44:03

Always, always, Um no one's ever gone.

Speaker 1: 44:07

Oh yeah, let's find out what procurement do for the fun of it no, but I would do the same.

Speaker 2: 44:11

So I find out what I would ask, what finance do and how it works in my organization, so I can understand how they budget for third parties and how I can then poke around in their budgets without causing them pain, right?

Speaker 2: 44:26

and get a saving yeah, and then I'm happy I've got a saving and they're happy that they've got excess cash in their budget that they can either use for another file or whatever they need to do with it. So it's, it's less. You know, it's obviously like there's a motivation behind it from an individual asking, but the fact they're asking shows that they're looking for ways to improve the relationship and and they're working between departments. Yeah, yeah, and, and the reason I wanted to call it out is that it's just that it doesn't happen a lot to us. People don't ask us a lot of the time what, what we're doing, what our goals are, etc. And that would imply to me that we're just as guilty and we don't ask other departments as a procurement, procurement function. We probably are just as guilty if you take the average. So, yeah, that was just a bit of an unwise word at the end.

Speaker 1: 45:17

Would you say, for example, it would be good to know if you're responsible for a sector. Let's say, would you be, or would a good procurement person know? Obviously that a good procurement person would know what the sector spend on suppliers is yeah, would they. Would you then expect them to know what the revenue generated in the sector is?

Speaker 2: 45:45

Not to a tee, necessarily, but to understand how and where it's coming from. Because it's a bit like if our company buys Stanley cups and sells them with a 10% markup on, what is the benefit in me going to Stanley and reducing their pricing by 50%? Going to Stanley and reducing their pricing by 50%? Well, it depends, right, it's only going to be valuable if we can carry on selling at the same price to our customer, because then we're getting, instead of our 10% markup, we're also getting the 50% difference. However, if we can't maintain the cost and we have to do open book or we have to, you know, we can only charge 10% markup then reducing the price is not going to do anything. It's going to actually reduce our revenue.

Speaker 2: 46:35

So, understanding that is important and you need to at least understand the logistics of it before you go and cause more damage than good. For sure, for sure. Yeah, that's it really. So today I'm trying to kind of jump into that article. I think it's a very good point. I think if you want to succeed and in some of the other episodes we talk about kind of success in a procurement role and moving up the chain or the ladder, whatever you want to call it, and I think actually this is more of a strategic discussion around what just makes you a better asset for the business as a whole. I did have something for the notice board, actually, but I'll save it for the next episode.

Speaker 1: 47:13

I feel like you should say it now, because the one we're about to go and record probably won't be published for like six months.

Speaker 2: 47:20

Okay, well, I was gifted some. Someone sourced for me some LTP beer mats and I don't know if you're aware, but they are limited edition. There is, I think, maybe seven left limited edition. One has been signed, but I've got a feeling we could do one of these as a giveaway for a listener we could do one of these as a giveaway for a listener.

Speaker 1: 47:51

We could, we could, we could definitely. We could definitely do a giveaway of uh, of beer slash coffee matt for for those who, uh, who would like it. What should we? Should we make it some sort of competition? You know I love a competition longest silence competition I don't know what the competition is is while listening to LTP. How many backflips can you do? In the space of, you've got to film it and send it in we get no entrance.

Speaker 2: 48:25

I think let's do something like I don't know when this episode is going to go live, but drop us an email with your name and one thing you love about LTP as a pod and he's thinking this is so boring. One thing you love about LTP as a pod and something you would like to see in a future episode.

Speaker 1: 48:53

How does that sound, or is?

Speaker 2: 48:54

that too boring for you? Sure, go for it. Yeah, um, and we can put a.

Speaker 1: 48:59

We can put a deadline in by some point what we'll do is we'll put the deadline as my birthday, luke 10's birthday, so you've got to know when my birthday is. I haven't said what year, though.

Speaker 2: 49:16

I don't want any BS mystery around this mate. I want it to be a legit thing what about guess?

Speaker 1: 49:22

my birthday is the competition. What about the winner will be announced the winner will be announced.

Speaker 2: 49:26

Definitely a guessable birthday. The winner will be announced when season 3 goes live okay, but that relies on us doing a season 3 are you in?

Speaker 1: 49:36

contract negotiations are underway sounds positive. It's like a footballer, it's like a footballer thing. Yeah, contract negotiations underway, hoping we'll be in agreement soon. But mainly I just want to get this resolved because I'm looking forward to starting the season. Just want a bit of certainty in my training. I want to get to business. I want to get working with a new manager A new manager.

Speaker 1: 50:03

Yeah Well, I assumed that you knew that we're having a new Luke 1. The other grizzly is taking over your patch on the podcast as well. I actually think if he tried to take oh sorry, if they tried to take over your podcast patch, you would genuinely fight. You would have a scrap.

Speaker 2: 50:29

I would scrap for the pod. Yeah, I think that's the limit right.

Speaker 1: 50:32

I wonder who who would win? It would be close.

Speaker 2: 50:36

Oh, you didn't like that, oh no this is all friendly banter, all friendly banter, so that didn't help with the competition at all.

Speaker 1: 50:46

Um no, I kind of forgot we were doing that, to be honest maybe, just maybe, just uh, drop us a text and say beer mat beer mat and then drop us a text saying beer mat. Why have we made this so complicated? I don't know. Drop us a text saying beer mat, then drop us an email saying beer mat 2, then drop us a slide into our Insta DMs Saying beer mat 3, and if you complete all of those 3 Then you get a beer mat.

Speaker 2: 51:17

Now scrap that, surely. We just do a. Drop us a message and tell us whether you prefer beer mat 1 or beer mat 10 and give us your reason why beer mat 1 is better than beer mat 10.

Speaker 1: 51:28

I thought you were going to say like, if we've got 7 beer mats left, you only get one vote. You can pick beer mat 6, and if that one's still available, no, there's only one getting posted, mate.

Speaker 2: 51:40

Have you seen postage fees lately?

Speaker 1: 51:43

obviously they'd have to pay for postage right. Listeners have to pay.

Speaker 2: 51:49

I'll find out. I'll find out if the winner's in like I don't know, I was trying to think of somewhere far away and I thought of Dorset.

Speaker 1: 52:00

If you're in Dorset, we'll send it to anywhere except Dorset, okay?

Speaker 2: 52:06

That's the rules of the competition. The Dorset Ultras are going's the rules of the competition.

Speaker 1: 52:07

The Dorset ultras are gonna be uh fuming they're in pool, they're they're having rage right now. They're just, they're just crying with, uh, with anger. Do you know what? I'll tell you what you can pay for it if it's anywhere in the world except Dorset, and I'll pay for it if it's in Dorset, yes, okay, okay. So, uh, hoping on the dorset massive don't, don't come and get the beer mats, anyway, I forgot what the competition was. But just just ask for a beer mat and you probably get one yeah, maybe give us something we can use in an episode.

Speaker 2: 52:39

That's all I care about. Give us a little bit of feedback or insight reference the beer mat and then we'll uh, we'll probably select the best one. A funny office procurement story or confession or something, even a little nugget that we can use in the pod just remember to refer to beer matt, in whichever format you're communicating with us, otherwise we will totally forget that you're even in the competition yeah, you might even forget about this competition and, uh, we will see you on the next episode.

Speaker 1: 53:09

Sounds good. See you later.

Speaker 2: 53:12

See you later.

Speaker 1: 53:17

Goodbye, my friend. I'll see you in the next episode, thank you.