Welcome And A Listener Catch-Up

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Hello and welcome to Let's Talk Procurement. The only show you need to master the art of procurement. Let's go. You never forget that.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Spot on. Spot on.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

And into the brain.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

I feel like you're doing an impression of me when you say it, weirdly. Like your voice changes.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah, maybe I am, subconsciously. Maybe I'm just trying to be you.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Well, I've I have to admit we've got a listener that we've left hanging for three months. Um he asked a question, and uh I think you answered it on a WhatsApp voice note, but I didn't have the skill set to turn that into something for the for the pod. So if I if I read out his message, um his life probably changed completely in the three months since, but maybe you can you can answer it for him because I think it's a you question. Um hi guys, I really enjoyed the recent pod. I just wanted to say thanks for the tips, I appreciate it. Quick update from my side the job hunt's going okay, but it's been tough getting into buyerslash purchasing and procurement assistant roles since most places want experience already. I've also been trying to get into procurement graduate roles, but it's been very competitive. That said, I've had a good response from an apprenticeship role that covers my SIPS level four, and I'm now at the final stage. The interview is in the next couple of days to fingers crossed. Uh, yep, good luck. Uh also, quick question for you both. What's one skill you picked up later in your career that you now think is really important and wish you'd started working on earlier? And what actually makes someone stand out early on in the procurement role? Thanks again for the advice and for putting out a great podcast. Looking forward to the next. The one and only G1. Galos. Uh pronounced galos. Galos. Galos, yeah. G1. Let's take it over. The G1 is here. He's gonna find a G10 at some point.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

G1, I like that. I don't know why I didn't put that together. G1 and But yeah, Galos.

Apprenticeships And Getting A Foot In

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Um, thanks for getting in touch via the text us function in the description, right? Um well if the interview was in the next couple of days and this was what February uh February twenty yeah, February.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

February twenty-fourth.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

They either they either smash the interview and have been working at a company for three months and don't need any of our advice, or they failed the failed interview, I suppose that's not really a thing. Can you fail an interview? Maybe maybe that's a philosophical question.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Umsuccessful.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Maybe they were unsuccessful in the interview. Um what did they say? It's been very competitive, for sure. Job job market, not that I would really know this.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Well, you created a vacancy.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Say again. You created a vacancy, so I created a vacancy, yeah. I helped the job market out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Good man.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Um and I think graduate roles is also kind of even more ethic, right? Because all people that have kind of like gone through the same experiences and are trying to get the same jobs, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Um at the same time as well.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah. Do we know by the way, do we know if this is a a man or a woman or a non-binary? So should I just say they have pronouns? Is that I was gonna I was gonna go, I just wanted to get my pronouns like I mean. Um they, I'll go with they. They said uh I've had a good response from an apprenticeship role, covered my six level four. So that is I'm assuming I think there's only one apprenticeship procurement, there might be more, but I did the commercial apprenticeship in sorry, apprenticeship in commercial procurement and supply, um, which was really good. I definitely recommend it to anyone who wants to get into procurement, even if you're not like of typical apprenticeship age, if you want to think about it that way. Um it encouraged me to go and find out things about company and about procurement that I wouldn't have done otherwise.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Um, because you have to evidence. I mean, this is going back some years now. I think you I think I remember the shaking his head. You have to evidence um knowledge skills and something else, knowledge skills and context or something. I can't remember what it is, but you basically have a list of of competences, I guess, that you have to go and like fight out for your ends, you know, to kind of pass your checkpoint. Um so yeah, that in that way I definitely and that gave me permission for my employer as well to go and like ask different people about their work and stuff, and it was kind of like, well, he's not just snooping around being weird, he is actually like he needs to do this for his apprenticeship. I mean, he is weird anyway, but you know, he's snooping around because of his apprenticeship, right? Um so yeah, fingers crossed that you that you got that job um in February.

Skills We Wish We Learned Earlier

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Um, quick questions for us both, I mean this is the this is the classic short story, long answer for me. Um what's one skill you picked up later in your career that I think is really important? Um one I don't know if I can really talk about later in my career because I'm not I'm not that far into it, right? But I back when I was working, um having a uh call with a difficult supplier who it was their you know they were causing problems in a bid that we were putting together and they were making things more difficult. It was you know none none of the issues that were occurring were the fault of a company that I was working for. Yeah, and then when we got on the call, the sales guy from their company started getting really defensive and like was on the verge of shouting at some point, and the other person who I was on the call with, the other representative of uh procurement, was really calm about it and he kind of like in you know you know if if in that situation you're really annoyed at the company for not doing their bit and they're getting really annoyed under pressure. I think a lot of people would kind of like fight fire with fire, yeah. But this guy he he just like fire with water. I don't know if that's a phrase, but he just calmed the situation down. Um the call actually ended up being quite positive by the time we got the other company to kind of commit to doing some things by the next next call we were gonna have. And instead of it being like a big argument Edward calling out, that it turned into a really good positive call.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

So I don't really know how to sum that up in one word, but what I take from that is you're kind of saying to be more wet. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Absolutely. Be more wet, yeah. It kind of makes sense. Yeah, it does kind of make sense. I think you just kind of basically don't know how to sum that up, but that's a that's a skill that I think I I was really impressed by that. The way that he just kind of calmed the whole situation down and put it right back around. And then obviously the sales guy, I think he felt a bit guilty for shouting at us. And then he was then also more agreeable to think as well in some ways.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Fair enough. I think I think for me it's it's been learning that you've got your own objectives, so prioritize them. Um, I know it sounds really weird, but in procurement you get so many people after after things from you as the procurement person telling you this is urgent, that's urgent, you need to do this, you need to do that. Actually, you as an individual are measured on certain things, probably savings, probably and low supply chain management, whatever it is. If what you are being asked to do isn't helping you achieve your goals, then it's not your priority. So just really learning that my priority is your priority, isn't my priority, basically. Um, which I think is a really important skill to remember. And as soon as you start as soon as you start doing that, you have the support of your management because they know you're working on your collective goal as a team rather than just doing non-priority bits for other people.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah. Um, and I think that kind of answers the next question that G1 asked as well, which was what actually makes someone stand out early on in the procurement ground? Obviously, if you're thinking about the perspective of the big bosses who have got to report their progress on their targets, if if you're always a kind of like reliable contributor to the good news and to their targets, then you're gonna stand out in a good way, right? I mean, they did say stand out, so you could try and stand out in a bad way.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

You could, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

No, that that uh that is just my that's just my tactic, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:50

You could do something simple. So if you notice that your your manager always parks in the same place when they turn up in the office, get there a little bit earlier, take their spot. Something like that. Yeah, get in there nice and early. Oh, the new the new kid's just taking my spot. Instantly on the radar.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah. Maybe maybe a mullock, but that's a bit more stand out.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

That's a bit more traveling the world than it is corporate office. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

You're saying if I come back to uh to work, I can't eat the mullet.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

That's not my call, mate. You do you.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

I feel like it's uh it's becoming a part of me. I feel lost. I feel lost without it.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

What's interesting is it's actually it looks better from behind. Um sounds really weird, but like from the front, you kind of still look the same, but then you turn around and it's improved.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

What's the phrase? Business in the front, party in the back.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah. I kind of think unemployed in the front, um, party in the back is probably more appropriate.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Yeah. It does need a bit of a trim, but needs uh needs a bit of smartening up.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

That might make sense.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah. Only a select few people uh known because I don't know. I've just not I've not uh showed anyone for some reason, kept it secret, kept it hidden.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

I might I might circulate it on the next uh catch up with our cock with our mutual friends.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

The next team meet and have a whole agenda point about my hair.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, we do we do have we do have some time slots to fill, so I'm sure we can put 20 minutes in for that. Um no, I love it. Okay, cool. So um Galos, which I think is a girl, by the way, um, because it's Carlos with the G. G stands for girl. Could be guy, actually. I think he's a I think he's a dude, but we'll we'll we'll just go with them. So thank you them for your getting in touch. Um do let us know if you got the job and if any of our advice that was released well ahead of time has helped you in any way, shape, or form. Uh because that's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

How to do the recording recordings and well assuming this one worked, now we know how to do the recording. Hopefully, we'll be quicker at uh yeah, getting stuff sorted.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, I mean I look, I'm just surprised you've managed to commit some time, so I'm well happy with that. Um what would it cover today, by the way?

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Okay,

Is Procurement The Highest Stress Role

SPEAKER_02 12:34

so the the meat of today's episode um is gonna be us looking through R procurement on Reddit. I don't know if many people are on that subreddit, I think that's what it's called. Um but there's quite a few questions that get put in there, some interesting, some like rant rants about a few things, uh, which is one of the ones that we've got here. It's labelled as a rant, so that's helpful. Um it's from it's from you slash cocaine underscore trillionaire. Um so you know it's gonna be a serious question when when that comes up. Uh is procurement slash supply chain the highest stress corporate role? Is the title of the post. Uh I've been working in procurement slash supply chain all my life. Honestly, I'm starting to feel like this field is just constant pressure from every direction. When finance delays payments to suppliers, operations comes to me after my materials are late or why supplies are holding back. I start trying to explain something I don't even control. Then when operations wants very specific items, urge at the management pushes back saying there must be cheap alternatives or that I should have negotiated better when timelines are impossible and supplies a limit. What makes it worse is that if things go right, nobody really notices. But if anything is late or costs more than expected, procurement is the first place everyone looks. Compared to that, it's more of rant. Uh I look at HI and marketing, it feels like their stress is more contained within their own world. Uh gonna skip that bit of the rant. Uh they obviously have pressure too, but it feels more structured, blah blah blah. In procurement, it feels like carrying responsibility for operations, finance timing, supply performance, internal expectations, and management pressure all at once. The finance manager comes to me in capitals asking what I think the price hasn't been paid. Maybe it gets better with experience, but right now it just feels like I'm always the one getting squeezed from every side. What are your uh what are your thoughts on that, Mr. Luke One?

SPEAKER_01 14:38

I'm being completely honest. If your Reddit username is Cocaine Trillionaire, you probably shouldn't be a procurement manager or any sort of professional. Um, probably need to go up first.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Cocaine billionaire. That's and that's alright, is it?

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Yeah. It's an ambitious, ambitious sort of title, isn't it? Um I think like any role, it can be stressful. I think everyone deals with stress differently. I think one of the best things about procurement is that you have exposure to people at the kind of higher levels of the company. So you could be in a relatively junior role but speaking to board level, could be speaking to executives depending on your organization and size and layout. Um but if you like if you don't like that exposure, then you're gonna feel the pressure of being in that environment. So I feel like he's had a bad day, he or she has had a bad day, and they've kind of just yeah, gone to town a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Um I do like one of the comments though.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

I don't know if you've seen it, so it's um in my view, what makes the procurement function unique um is because it's got significant strategic and tactical pressure. Which which I quite like actually, because that's saying you know you've got it from from your kind of company's long-term vision, but also the the day-to-day stuff.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yeah. I think that it's not I wouldn't say it's the most high pressure. Um I think that there are definitely other roles that are more pressured, but I do empathise with the part about when things go right, no one knows.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

I've definitely said that before, haven't I, when comparing being a procurement professional to being a referee in terms of when you do a good job, it's kind of unexpected, that's how it should be done. You know, that's things that things on time is how it should be. Um I think it it pays pretty well, especially at the stressful kind of jobs like the directors and the CPOs, chief procurement officers. Um yeah, I don't know, I think supply chain is probably more high pressure than procurement, you're dealing with kind of like logistics and products that need to be in a specific place at a specific time. Whereas just, you know, if you're in kind of like, I don't know, uh intangible, is that is that even the right phrase? I don't know. I've lost all my procurement knowledge, but if you're what I'm trying to say is if you're procuring something physical like an item, potentially that is more stressed than something intangible, like a service, it's just got to be delivered at some point. Do you know if you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yes, I do. Um the only other thing in this post that I found really interesting is um obviously they mentioned a couple of users mentioned about the logistics and getting things on time and saying that's a lot more stressful um because of the knock-on consequences. Um, but also sales, a lot of people saying sales is more stressful. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Um I think sales is probably more personal stress, I don't know if that makes sense. Um you've got to kind of put up a bit of a bit of a act being sales and then every sales sales then. You've kind of got to like try and be genuine while also trying to sell things, which is hard. And also a lot of sales jobs get paid in commission. So if you aren't selling, then you ain't getting paid, I suppose, which it's gonna add to the stress. Um I think in procurement, because you're the stress that comes from procurement in terms of a sales aspect, is you're suspicious of things and you're trying to see. I think maybe you're always trying, you always got that kind of suspicious head on, like oh, the salesperson that bring me you know 10 days someone's eating free. What are they gonna do with those 10 days? Are they gonna try and get into my company and you know, work out how to expand their business, probably.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah, and how do you limit it and all that?

SPEAKER_02 19:06

So maybe that yeah, the stress from that sales side comes from being more skeptical and always thinking what could go wrong. But yeah, no, no, I don't know. I've never worked in sales, so didn't I couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

No, I I I mean I did some sales, but it wasn't it was commission when you did well, low commission if you didn't, but it didn't really affect like the kind of base salary and stuff, which is I think it's fairly typical. Um but it wasn't like a life-changing commission either, so it wasn't really like the team as a as a as a whole weren't really fast. It was just like, yeah, hopefully we hit it. Um if not, we'll probably get over it.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

If you get a bit more bit more money, yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Um I can see it because obviously if it is your livelihood depends on you doing like I don't know, selling X amount of cars a month, then then you're having two bad months in a row, that could be quite quite uh bad. But

Pay Rises And Bonuses From Savings

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I think I think that takes us nicely on to the next post from Cool Kiwi One, um, which is has has anyone negotiated a salary based on savings? Um so I've seen some posts about bonuses based on commission, but have you actually successfully negotiated a raise or a salary based on your savings achieved? For example, I've saved about six million dollars over the last two and a half years for the company alone. The company's annual spend is about 15 million. Um, however, I've only achieved say uh annual raises around CPI.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah, it's a weird one, isn't it? Because savings are measured differently throughout, you know, in a lot of different companies, as if what counts or doesn't count as savings, or a cost avoidance, or uh whatever other work that someone's gonna come up with. Um and I think as well, I would potentially have a problem if I was I don't know, a director or a possible procurement team with giving out bonuses based on savings because because of that kind of definition aspect. And I think it's it's probably gives rise to the possibility that people could inflate the savings number. Um like for example, you know, just some some companies can count a saving that like the supplier originally said they were gonna charge 100 grand, now they're gonna charge 80 grand. That's not negotiation. Is that a saving? That how are you how are you able to verify that basically? Sometimes it is I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

If if um obviously now you're not um employed by anyone, uh you can be only put about. This this question. Um have have you personally have you personally ever overinflated or said something's bigger than it actually was?

SPEAKER_02 22:11

No, I have not. I know I know that wasn't town, obviously, but maybe I haven't done that because the company I worked for didn't get any extra benefit for I mean obviously apart from the food I've hitting us hitting your savings target, you didn't get any extra like I don't know, meal with the CEO or something, or free beer or something, I don't know. They're just like, oh well, then you're getting the savings target this year.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Um yeah, nice one. Kind of back.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Yeah, now what? Yeah. Um the the kind of the consensus, that's the word I'm looking for. The consensus of the people um who have applied to this post on Reddit seems to be that no one really gets that percentage of their savings, but some people seem to get like if they if the team hits a target and they get more money.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Which I I don't mind the idea of that because it's you were being carried by the rest of the team.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Yeah, get a percentage of that number, just get a general primarily credible.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah, that's fair. I think the the other bit on the post is that it can lead to adverse behaviour in that you reduce the quality and the everything you basically do everything you can just to pick the cheapest, um the cheapest option. So cheap isn't always the best, and I know we've discussed in our episodes like moving towards um picking the most viable option, more more so than just just the best, the cheapest. So it is everything else in that you factor in as well in terms of its long-term kind of total cost and everything else. So um, which I agree with, but interestingly, the sales is a very, very big commission-based um role. And in most, well, in a lot of organizations, they don't typically assess the quality of what a salesperson has sold. Um, so actually, you get a lot of those adverse kind of consequences or whatever in in sales already by by its nature, you know, the whole sleazy car salesman sort of classic anecdote where they're selling you a dud car for double the market price because you're innocent. Um that sort of thing. So if it's okay in sales, I mean I would be all for it to become a sleazy procurement professional, you know, bring in some cheap ass fake widgets from China and cash in on my bonus.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Exactly. Someone said uh uh it's archai is archaic to think of procurement as purely a cost-saving tool rather than a strategic function. That's inherently what this does. Once sourcing looks to save money by chasing lower quality and risking it inputs and services. Um I mean if you if you work for a company that is targeting just the cheapest, that's their target target for them to be the cheapest thing possible. Not care about anything else like quality or human rights or sustainability, then you know, maybe in that case it would be good to have it based on savings, commission based on savings.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yeah, yeah, and I think I think it's right, and I think that the general procurement person is probably a bit more adverse to spending money, so why would they dish out incentives around money? Um you know, it's like it's like a finance team trying to give bonuses to finance people. It doesn't really happen unless you're a banker, which is slightly different because they're motivated on transaction volumes and stuff like that. So you're in sales, they love bonuses because more motivation, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

And I think as well, the the other thing we haven't said yet is that it would probably result in a lower base salary. Um I guess cuit people generally can be quite risk-averse, so would would many people be willing to trade in a lower base salary with a higher potential earnings, maybe maybe not, depending on the situation, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Cool.

Chasing People Versus Real Buying

SPEAKER_02 26:33

What should we do for the next one? Uh I kinda I kinda like the title of this one from uh Background Scar 7096. I don't know if we should be saying these for I mean they're closed in the public forum, so I'm sure it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Um procurement is starting to feel like 80% chasing people and 20% actual decision making. Um little bit of burrito in the title, I like it. Lately I've been realizing that procurement, at least in a smallish team, seems to involve way less actually buying than people think. What I imagined was comparing supplies, making trade-offs, deciding who makes sense and moving things forwards. What I actually do all day is chase missing information. Uh I'm waiting on one supplier to confirm lead times, another to resend a quote because numbers changed, someone internally to approve packaging details, someone else to clarify whether an OQE article is still acceptable. And then I circle back to the conversation from three days ago because no one created two. There's one answer to created two new questions. Uh by the end of the day, I've touched 14 things and maybe closed. Closed maybe one. That's the part that's wearing me down. It's not even one dramatic problem, it's constant fragmented follow-up. Tiny loose ends everywhere all day. Some days it just feels like my real job is keeping half-finished conversations from collapsing. Please tell me this is a normal phase and not just a sign that our process is a mess.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Wow, there's some there's some deep responses on this as well. Think a bit about the other way around. Why would your role be even necessary if it wasn't for being a connector to the human world? Does that make you feel better?

SPEAKER_02 28:22

I feel like a classic Reddit answer. Uh most people saying sounds about right, normal-ish.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Um there's babysitting and then there's carrying the baby to full term, feeding it, burping it, and putting it down for a nap.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Yeah, I do, I do, um, in my personal opinion on this, I do feel emphasising what they're saying, um, and I definitely felt the same. I think we are in a weird, this is my problem with the procurement profession, really, I suppose. Uh especially the the non-category management roles, is that you are buying things for people who know about them, but you don't really have much knowledge of products you're buying. And I don't know if you really expect it to at you're not a category manager because you'll be buying so many different things to have an in-depth knowledge, or at least a good enough knowledge to know how to apply to supplier questions, is not something that you're gonna be able to get that kind of depth of knowledge. Um, so yeah, that was my I empathized with that, and that was probably one of the reasons why I chose to go travel instead of find another procurement job, just do something different for a bit and see how I feel about going back into the world and procurement work after that. Um I think potentially if you were a category manager, or at least you have the same products coming up a lot in your what you're buying, maybe it's less chasing people for art to start stuff. Um, but I do definitely empathize with chasing this person for that.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

And yeah, I don't know if that's I don't know if that's exclusive to procurement though. I feel like it can feel like it is, but but a lot of it is, and it goes back to one of the points earlier around everyone's got their own priorities, right? So um like a sales leader be focusing on their new deal so that they won't they probably won't respond to questions around a deal they've just brought in as quick as they should do. Um, and little things like that which result in you chasing somebody else for something that's your priority but not theirs. Um and that kind of just creates that cycle. So I I don't know if it is just procurement, but I don't know why I'm feeling quite positive about procurement at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Those any good deals today? Uh you were you working today? Did you do any I was.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yes, I was working today.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Did you do any do you do any uh waiting on suppliers to confirm the times and other two or something both the numbers changed? Some of them turned into a proofing detail, etcetera, etc. I feel like these were the kind of things that I was emailing about David. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

I can see why there's a few people in the comments saying, Yeah, I think I'm leaving procurement unfortunately because it's this. Um other people saying that they've left procurement already because of this.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

I don't know, they don't know what your colleagues don't know what procurement is, you have to just elaborate to them, don't you? If you're if you're chasing them regularly, things won't get done. Just nip it in the bud nice and early and say, look, if you if you don't respond within a week, this is the consequence. Um and it's on you, basically. And you can sometimes be a bit too nice and you can be a bit blunt and Aggie with people because they they sure as hell throw you under the bus if they have to. Um actually you do find that being a bit blunt sometimes does have does have its uh its advantages as well.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

I think probably if you if you work for a I was gonna say a bigger company, but it might be worse. I don't know. If you work for a company that's got some good systems, like for example, one of the things that they said was chasing, what was it? I don't know, chasing a supplier. You've got to chase someone else about about that. If you've got a payment system already, can't that be done automatically? Maybe that's a benefit or an efficiency that could bring into the team. I don't know how many of them you could cut out systems, although you don't want to have too many systems, do you? It's a never it's uh it's a question that will never be solved. Top ten things procurement science can't solve.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Good way to end that one, I think.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Cool. Um

AI Automation And Making Yourself Obsolete

SPEAKER_02 33:09

is the next one, I think we've got uh two.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Yeah, I quite like the the strategic one. Uh by bison. Future of procurement. I moved into a head of procurement world a few months ago with a new employer. Thought it was going to be what I had built my career towards, and now I'm realising it's everything but I am my own worst enemy. Uh since I've started, the owner has appointed a new C-suite. A big push for AI and automation has kicked off. I've had several colleagues terminated in the last few weeks, which has triggered some tough conversations at home. My role when I got hired was to build a green greenfield procurement function. In a few months, the idea of actually building a department has been squashed as I realise this is a solo operation. For years I've built tools and automations to make myself and the job easier to get more done. I'm now realizing the only reason I haven't been terminated yet is because I've demonstrated the ability to make myself obsolete. I see a lot of people saying procurement can be a can't be A either way, and I'm just not seeing that be the case as a solution.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Well, that's a deep one.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Yeah, I think he's just thought he landed a big job ahead of procurement. Rocked up, the people he was managing have been let go, and uh now he's ahead of himself basically, and just trying to do it all as a one-man band.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Yeah, there's the classic on the AI part, there's someone's commented that classic phrase about AI won't replace procurement professionals, procurement professionals who must AI will.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Uh I think it's it's tough for for bison, B U Y S E and I quite like that name.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I quite like that. Better than cocaine billionaire. Billionaire.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Billionaire, yeah. Uh, because they've obviously come into they're gonna be able to like start something and design, design a function, right? I guess for for a lot of people that's quite appealing to build something the way that you want and get it working. Um they said uh the only is a point of the new C-suite, and the big push to AI and automation is keep on Big Pi. So have the priorities of that role it seems like they've been informally changed, like they've been informally changed. Um maybe that's something that you could bison could chat to the owner of this company about and say, like, this is what I thought I was hired for. Now it feels like you're going in that direction. I can be of help to you this way. Does this work? Maybe maybe a solution. Um and then I think that also reinforces you in that understanding it's like, okay, this person is trying to help me hit my goals, so I'll try and keep them around for as long as possible.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I think so, yeah. I mean I it's just another one where it feels like a rant more than a practical problem a little bit. Um in that he's bagged himself a new job and it's not what he'd dreamt of. And you've got to feel for the feel for them a little bit, but equally. I don't think every procurement functions in that situation. I think what we're seeing is some some are expanding, some are some are looking at alternative ways of structuring themselves. Um every profession's gonna be impacted to it to some extent. Yeah. But like that's the future, isn't it? You can't you can't stop it, you can't hide in a ditch and ignore it, you've just gotta embrace it really.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah, I think that it's like relationships are still gonna be important in 100% transactions, and I think for the at least the next few years, procurement's gonna be important because I think we've I'm sure we've definitely said this before, but when the economy slows down a bit, if that's the right term, but people what I'm trying to say is when people start spending less money rather than like trying to get in more sales, what a lot of businesses focus on is trying to reduce costs. Obviously, that might come with workforce reduction, but that also might come with like trying to find cheaper alternatives or looking through a bit of materials and working out what can be cut or what alternatives there are, right? Procurement's definitely going to be involved in that sort of in those sort of discussions.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yeah, and I don't know if it'll ever get to the point where an AI judgment is is able to be the final judgment with a degree of confidence that's equivalent to what you would expect from a procurement professional or or any professional for that matter, because you know you can put the same question into two AI, five different AI models, and you'll get different answers. Um you can ask them to do a price comparison and it will come back with price results that don't match what you can obtain by having a conversation. Um just things like that. So yeah, it does feel like we're a bit far away from that point, but equally get ahead of it. You can get ahead of it by listening to our episode on AI. Uh with Dr.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Now maybe.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

But uh freshly new one.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Still a great episode though, and I think um, yeah, maybe we should maybe we should catch up with uh Dr. Wang and see uh see what he's kind of been doing over the last year and a bit.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Yeah, I'm sure he's been busy.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Absolutely. Is there anything else you want to add for that?

Switching From Marketing Into Procurement

SPEAKER_02 39:24

No, I'm ready to move on to the next one from Mysterious underscore tech 30. Uh need advice regarding procurement jobs. Hey guys, my background is in organic growth marketing. I used to run my own marketing agency and right now testing one of my products. At the same time, I'm also looking for procurement jobs. Uh I read some of your comments in this procurement subreddit. It feels like procurement involves similar skills which compare to it. And it feels like procurement involves similar skills to dealing with clients which might be transferable. Even though I've been reading quite a lot for preparing seriously, I still need your advice on whether it's working procurement. Um what advice would you give me to prepare myself better? Should I target MNCs only, or is it client to work with any company in the beginning? What specific positions do you think I should apply for? Um what's an MNC?

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Multinational. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yeah, sure. Um what was the first question? What would you what advice would you give me to prepare myself for? Um well I guess the basics that I'm sure they would have done already is get an understanding and knowledge of what procurement is, what the principles of procurement are, and and basically the skills that you're gonna need to have to be a good professional. Then should I target MNCs only? Well, what are your thoughts on should uh the mysterious tech target MNCs only? Or is it fine to work with any company?

SPEAKER_01 41:11

I think it's fine to work with any company. I think if you go to a smaller company, you'll have more exposure and you'll get other elements that maybe aren't in the procurement typical procurement role that you can learn as well or you can showcase. Um if you're like galos, it might be hard to get a role in you know in in any any of the things, and you need to get your foot in the door first to then start your procurement career. So um I I wouldn't just focus on one one particular type of company or anything like that, but also I mean if he's he's testing one of his SaaS products, um, educational tech SaaS products. I mean it sounds like a bit of an entrepreneur as well, so it's a bit of a weird to be entrepreneurial and then go into a procurement career, which isn't very entrepreneurial in its nature. Um is he not backing his business? Yeah. What's the what's the what's the catch there, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:12

I don't know, maybe it's just you know they want a want a second or first income, primary income to then support the the hobby. Yeah, maybe it's a language thing, but it says I used to run my own marketing agency and right now I'm testing one of my SAS products.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Now that we're here to criticize grammar. Um in terms of specific positions to apply for, this is another weird thing about procurement in that it's not really defined. Like I don't know, you don't have a junior accountant, which means there's a set of responsibilities. Um common entry-level job titles would be like buyer, for example, junior buyer. Um if it's a category-based organization, sometimes they'll have like a something category like category officer, for example, as a report to a category manager.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Apprenticeships?

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Yeah, as well. Yeah, apprenticeships, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Yeah, I think equally you can you can look at things that are like like say by a um category manager, uh, might not necessarily have junior in front of it either, so a lot of the time you do have to read into the descriptions of the roles, um, which is always a funny one because you kind of know when you actually get a job it'll be slightly different to whatever it really was, but but equally you can kind of in the the kind of essentials section they normally say you know, should have sips or should be working towards sips or should you know have three years experience in this this industry or or whatever, and that kind of gives you a better indicator of how junior or senior the role is.

How To Read Job Titles And Reach Us

SPEAKER_02 44:00

If you we have we have replied to direct questions in the past, haven't we? Um people have got in touch on our email, which I can remember is two looks one sip at gmail.com, number two, looks plural, number one, EIP at gmail.com. Um, or obviously the text function which Ganos G1 did get in touch on. Um we also had it with um let's underscore talk underscore. Um and yeah, those are the ways to get in touch with us. Be your agony agony loops.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

I love it.

Wrap-Up Beards And Next Time

SPEAKER_01 44:42

It's been a real pleasure, honestly. Thank you so much for for making the time. Hopefully the listeners will appreciate it. And uh obviously wish you all the best on your on your travels if you carry on. Um but anytime you need a brief respite and you want to think about the corporate world again, you always know where I am, alright?

SPEAKER_02 45:00

We won't leave it so long until next time.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Yeah, if you've seen the length of my beard, I'm I'm I'm not trimming my beard until uh until we've done five episodes.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Yeah, and he's basically dying under the weight of it.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

Yeah, yeah. Could be a long beard.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

That's fun. All right, mate. Well, look, I'll see you later. See you later.